Comments on: The Job Post

By: Lance

Lance — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:18:11 +0000

A questioner, I like that! Your point is very well taken and I probably should not throw around the word fact without actually knowing if it is indeed a fact (I have adjusted the language in the post accordingly). The statement that you bring up is based solely in anecdotal evidence. Some of that anecdotal evidence is quite personal, as I know I would not have been hired for my current position if I had not first done an internship. I think you could postulate a pretty strong thesis around the fact that working in the field greatly improves your chances of being hired to a professional position. While I am certainly not saying that unpaid is better than paid, it might be the only option. Especially if you are targeting a specific institution or specialization within the field.

I think you raise an interesting point on networking. I could certainly see other forms of networking take the place of uncompensated work in some instances. I am sure that you can tell by my post that I am not comfortable with the prominence of unpaid work has in our profession and welcome any ideas that may help.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment!

By: Lance

Lance — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:14:36 +0000

Thanks for the agreement! I almost brought up terminal grant funded appointments in the original post. The job I currently have is both time limited and grant funded and I see it a lot like the volunteering. In an ideal world, we would all get the permanent employment we deserve. I will say these those positions are a great way to try something on for size or as a way to get some very specific and relevant training to boost your real-world credentials. I had not thought of sustainability the way you presented it here and think that is an outstanding point. Why are funders and archives putting the emphasis on the sustainability of programs and not people (and that is not a rhetorical question, I seriously don’t know)?

I’ll keep fighting as long as you keep reading and bring up these great points!

By: Lance

Lance — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:13:51 +0000

Thanks for the comment Kathryn. It is interesting to see that the situation in the US is similar to that in the UK, and I agree that finding an alternative to volunteering is a long-shot, but I do see a lot of people like us that are not all that comfortable with it. Perhaps this will at least get us to think about what we are offering volunteers in lieu of pay, maybe even ensure that at some point it can lead to paid positions. It is a difficult topic but I think discussion and more research (see comment 3#) is needed. Man, I hate it when stuff is hard

On a complete side-note, I had an internship at a museum/archives while working in the wine department of a retail store. Another similarity between the US and UK must be the profusion of wine-knowledgeable unemployed archivists!

By: Joy

Joy — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:59:41 +0000

I question this statement: “The fact that unpaid experiences help in getting a job is, well, a fact.”

Is it in fact fact? That is, have you been able to locate research studies that find that unpaid experience leads to a job in a X% of cases?

Since we’re asked to accept that our unpaid labor equals future rewards, it would be great to see a measure of the likelihood that our freely-given time will result in the desired benefit of a job.

If you do go looking for a stat that gives some objective weight to our own anecdotal experiences, distinguish between “networking equals jobs” from “unpaid internship equals jobs”. I *have* seen good research that a high percentage of job-seekers get employment through their networks. I’m questioning whether you necessarily need to build these networks through free labor.

By: Arlene

Arlene — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:23:34 +0000

Bravo on all points. And I’m definitely with you on the antipathy/hesitancy/uncertainty as to the value of volunteering. If it’s going to allow you to network with people who really are connected, provide your resume with deliverables, go for it. But I don’t agree with some in the field that volunteering is the way to enter the profession. I even dislike the trend that’s growing that forces so many of our recent graduates into grant-funded temp positions. If you’re still exploring what you want to do, that’s fine. But seems so unfair to me. That’s what internships are for, not post-degree work. How does anybody pay off student loans if they’re forced into non-paying jobs or stuck with jobs that either come to a sudden halt or that you spend half of the term having to job-search again so you’ll be employed when the grant ends?

Every time I hear people talk about sustainability when applying for massive federal funds to hire people on term projects, I just get the shivers. Sustainable in that the collections are described, but not sustainable for professional development, for careers, for the profession. Sure the hires get experience processing, describing, maybe digitizing, but what about their long-term development? Experience managing? Grant-writing? Policy-crafting? All those things that will allow them to move onward and upward in their careers? That’s a grant project I want to see. I think I’ll be waiting for a while.

Keep fighting the good fight, Lance.

By: Kathryn Mackenzie

Kathryn Mackenzie — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:34:17 +0000

I totally agree with starting to build your resume whilst studying. Doing voluntary work really helped me figure out the type of archive I wanted to work in and the type of archival material that I most enjoyed working with. I really enjoyed doing voluntary work, but I’m sure this was because my current job at the time, working in a wine shop, was getting me down (although it had its perks!). I can’t imagine if I’d had to do voluntary work after graduating but I know this is the case for many people, and it may well be the case again for me one day given that so many of the jobs in the UK Archive sector are fixed term contracts (is it the same in the US?). However I hope that the variety of voluntary work I did prior to, and during my course, coupled with my professional experience over the past four years, will mean voluntary work is a thing of the past!

“When we are in positions of power, will we continue to use volunteering as a litmus test? I hope we can come up with something better.” Working in the University sector with continued cuts to services I can’t imagine that something better will come up. Voluntary work, internships, outside-archive activities such as blogging, conference attendances etc. do show someone’s committment to the profession. I’m not saying I agree with it, just that I can’t see things changing. However I know from my experiences of working in universities that the efforts of volunteers are often rewarded with paid work whenever it is available.

It’s interesting, though not particularly encouraging, to see that the dependence on voluntary work for experience/employment is not particular to the UK Archives sector!